Update (4/23/08)

Steve,

Shortly after Lennon's Anthology was released, George Martin said in an interview that he in fact wanted Paul to play the bass part on Grow Old With Me, but Linda was ill at the time. Sure sounds like him, but any session bassist can play melodic bass (Paul trademark) verses standard scale if instructed. If Paul was there, there would be no reason not to credit him (I don't think).

Mike V.

Hello Steve,

Peter Hodgson here again from Liverpool. I read with interest Mike Viscardi's piece on "All For Love" which he reckons could have been the working title to "Real Love", he made a very valid point as I have often wondered the very same thing. However, Real Love was "in the can" by the time I visited Paul in March 1995 and also of note, The song was already called Real Love on the 1988 movie soundtrack to the Imagine film, everybody also knows that it also had the title Girls & Boys. It has often crossed my mind that Paul has that many things going on inside his head, maybe he might have just unwittingly said All For Love to me, and not realised ? The Paul, George & Ringo reunion version of Real Love was recorded over the period of a week in February 1995, as soon as recording was completed Paul flew over to the USA to Sun Valley Idaho to record with Steve Miller ( Young Boy ). Paul actually told me that he had recently been recording with Steve. He had Yoko and Sean over to his own studio a couple of weeks later ( Hiroshima Skies ) and the week before I visited he had been recording "All For Love" with George & Ringo Would they have changed the title of an already titled song ???? I see Paul from time to time when he comes home to Liverpool, next time I'm going to ask !!!!

Peter Hodgson,
Liverpool

Hi Steve,

I've enjoyed following the persistent "Threetles" rumors, and I've learned some new things, which I didn't think was possible at this point. I thought I'd chime in on your latest entry:

"Grow Old With Me" was never worked on by the Threetles. Back when all this was happening, beginning with rumors in late 1993 and continuing through all the reunion sessions, Beatlefan (along with Beatlefan/EXTRA!) provided exhaustive coverage, and they printed tons of quotes and interviews with Paul, Jeff Lynne, and others. In an October 1995 interview with Allan Kozinn (printed in Beatlefan #97), Paul McCartney made it clear that "Grow Old With Me" was never considered an option at any time:

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KOZINN: And now you're doing "Grow Old With Me"?

McCARTNEY: No, I don't think so, no. We're not that keen on that one.
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They had similar reservations about "Real Love" too, and that song was indeed a clear THIRD choice to "Free As A Bird" and "Now And Then." An attempt to salvage "Now And Then" was made after "FAAB" was completed, and all the principals (Paul, George, Ringo, Jeff) have expressed a kind of wistful fondness for the track's potential. As it turned out, though, "Now And Then" proved unfixable (Macca: "We'd have to do a hatchet job on it"), and they resorted to "Real Love" for the second reunion track. In Beatlefan #97, Rip Rense interviewed Jeff Lynne. In addition to debunking the "GOWM" rumor, Jeff seems to be saying that "Now And Then" was only worked on for a single day and then abandoned:

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RIP RENSE: They didn't work on any other songs than the three you mentioned? Didn't work on "Grow Old With Me," as a lot of press reports said?

JEFF LYNNE: No. It was only the three.

RIP RENSE: How many sessions were there for the third song?

JEFF LYNNE: It was one day -- one afternoon, really -- messing with it, because a lot of the words weren't on there. We did the backing track, a sort of backing track, a rough go of one that we didn't really finish. We got an arrangement kind of going but we didn't finish it and went straight on to "Real Love" because of the time factor.

RIP RENSE: Is there a possibility you will all get together to finish that song?

JEFF LYNNE: There was never anything said about that.
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As for the "Lennon Anthology" version of "Grow Old With Me," it was indeed orchestrated by George Martin and the McCartney-esque bass line was done that way on purpose. If I recall correctly, the bass part was played by George Martin's son, Giles. McCartney was not involved in any way. See Beatlefan issue #115:

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Martin told Rip Rense that Ono asked him to do the track earlier this year [1998]. "As you know, I didn't do the 'Free As A Bird' translation, and I've always felt a little uncomfortable about people working with dead people ... It wasn't a very good piece of tape, you know, it was pretty amateurish. So I decided the only way to treat it was to score it with classical overtones. And I took on the job of improving the sound and adding an orchestra to it." And a bass line, which he thought about asking Paul McCartney to play but decided it would be "inappropriate" after Linda's death. (p. 16)
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Steve,

I had the same thoughts as Jeff Westerman regarding “Grow Old With Me,” and the bass part sounding very much like McCartney. When the George Martin production of the song was released on the Lennon boxed set, I interviewed Martin about it. He told me that the bass was not played by Paul. All reports from the “Anthology” reunion period said the song was rejected for consideration by George Harrison, and no work was done on it.

Best,
Rip

"If I could have asked McCartney or Martin just one question in the last ten years, it would have been about this recording. For what it's worth, I'd love an answer....." -- Jeff Westerman

Jeff,

I was fortunate enough to be asked to emcee The Making of Sgt. Pepper with George Martin at the Calvin Theatre in Northampton back in February 1999. I spent time backstage after the show with Sir George, his wife and Giles Martin. There were a thousand questions I wanted to ask, but I decided to stick to just one topic, "Grow Old With Me." He told me he was approached by Yoko Ono and given carte blanche to score it. However, the first thing he did before accepting the job was to call Paul McCartney for his opinion. McCartney recommended he not take on the task, saying the Threetles passed on "Grow Old With Me" because of concerns over the sound quality. Martin told me that the percussion, piano and vocal on the single cassette track provided to him was a serious obstacle. He explained how he worked around it. I too noticed that the bass player is not credited on the Lennon Anthology. I don't know if I would call the bass work on the song "highly McCartney-esque." I asked about the musicians involved. Martin said he used session men and strings. And yes, I strongly doubt that if McCartney was secretly involved in this session that Martin would reveal it to a newspaper reporter he had met a few hours earlier.
Ray

Hello Steve,

What with all the talk about NOW & THEN, and the mysterious song ALL FOR LOVE, there's one recording we DO have which no one mentions, and I believe it's as close to the third "Threetles" record as we've come. I'm referring, of course, to GROW OLD WITH ME. We know that this was one of a least four songs worked on by the surviving Beatles in the mid-90's, but held back from release. And yet, if I'm correct, I believe a major part of this third reunion recording has been hiding in plain sight since 1998!

Follow my thinking: In 1998, the LENNON ANTHOLOGY box set was released, and on it was a new "production" of GROW OLD WITH ME, arranged / orchestrated / and produced by none other than George Martin. It was clearly based on the same cassette version released on MILK & HONEY, but was much improved technically as compared to its original release. Forensic technology had come a long was since 1983. It was a great finale to the Lennon set, and a sublime George Martin footnote.

Yet listen very closely. Who's playing that highly McCartney-esque bass part? It's the one new element in the recording besides the strings. Read the liner notes. Mr. Martin is clearly credited. So are the string players. So are the engineers. So why on earth is the bass uncredited if it ISN't Paul McCartney?

My guess is that this version of the song, as it appeared on the Lennon box, was a product of the Threetles overdub sessions, with the results stripped back to feature just McCartney's bass part and the new Martin orchestration. I could see McCartney going to great lengths to enhance this recording with his performance, but I also believe he'd want to tread very carefully to avoid upstaging his old partner's posthumous release. Just as we recently saw that a great deal of attention was given to Mr. Martin's string arrangement for the LOVE version of WHILE MY GUITAR GENTLY WEEPS, his work on this version of GROW OLD WITH ME also drew glowing reviews. This would provide great cover for the ever-efficient McCartney to at least get GROW OLD WITH ME out there with his performance included on it, while still managing to preserve the dignity of Lennon's box set.

If I could have asked McCartney or Martin just one question in the last ten years, it would have been about this recording. For what it's worth, I'd love an answer.....

Regards, Jeff Westerman

Hi Steve, I just wanted to jump in and help clarify some issues regarding the Threetles recording sessions and projects. George was never against working with Paul and Ringo. In fact, it was he who had first been approached by Yoko regarding John's demos. As long as they worked on John's songs or new material George was happy. He was indeed worried about Paul taking over the proceedings, which he is wont to do. The day of that infamous jam at George's house did not start out well. A film and recording session was setup, according to my sources, to record some backing music for Anthology. Ringo has also been quoted as saying some "incidental music" for Anthology would be recorded by himself, Paul and George.

At some point, Paul suggested they record Let It Be as some symbolic swan song. George, quite rightly refused to do a song identified as a "Paul song". The same reason The Long And Winding Road was dropped as the project title. At this point, a long break in the proceedings happened while the three of them worked out what to do next. Part of the break was captured on film; George and Paul busking with the ukes in George's yard (isn't it nice we have film of them being so informal?) I like that both Ringo and Paul remember Dehra Dun. And George knows the chords to I Will, a song he didn't even perform on back in 1968! Not saying the discussions weren't heated or intense, but it's nice to know music would be the calming source for them all. It's also important to point out that this session was in June 1994, and that they re-grouped the following February to finish Real Love. They also worked on Now & Then several times. From their very first formal session in Feb 1994 to the last session. The problem with Now & Then is mostly a technical issue. It was not worked on for just an afternoon, as Jeff Lynne recalls.

Since the film and recording equipment and personnel were already setup they decided to be filmed jamming to oldies and this session lasted the rest of the afternoon, including run throughs of the early Lennon/McCartney songbook, including Love Me Do and I Saw Her Standing There. Unfortunately, we don't have access to the rest of the footage so it's near impossible to ascertain individual moods. As it is, I think it's pretty amazing George knew the riffs and words to Thinking Of Linking. He also does a note-perfect job on Raunchy.

Regarding Blue Moon Of Kentucky: George's comment was not some sarcastic jab at Paul. It referred to doing Elvis' version which doesn't have the original slow intro, it starts right off with the uptempo bluegrass arrangement which the Threetles then proceed to play. I think many people mistake George's expressions and laconic speech as a sign of disinterest or resentment. The Real Love promo belies any sort of hostility between them. I just wish more of this footage was made public.

Update (4/12/08)

Steve, after reading the latest story on "All For Love", that is the period when they were working on Real Love, so it could have easily been a working title. Harrison resisted anything as a trio. You can even see it in the acoustic Threetle jam ("just the short version" on Blue Moon of Kentucky). I think the three could have still produced some great new stuff, but I would guess that other than "All Those Years Ago", it never happened.

Steve --

With all the hubbub over this track I thought I'd once again point out that my band The Badge recorded a track with this title for our album "Calling Generation Mojo" which was released in 2003. The track was a tribute to George (as well as Raphael Rudd, a friend an collaborator of mine, as well as Pete Townshend's). A couple of years ago I gave a copy of the track to Eric Idle, who said he really loved it and was touched by the sentiment and the feel, which he felt was reminiscent of George. Anyway, I saw Eric a couple of weeks ago and the song came up again. We chatted more about George and he once again noted how much he liked the song. For anyone who reads your site who'd like to download the song just to check it out we're making it available for free at: http://www.digitalretro.com/cgm/07_the_badge_All_For_Love.mp3.

Take care.
jeff.
http://www.thebadge.com

Update (4/9/08)

"My info when I was covering “Anthology” for the L.A. Times, ICE, and various other publications, was that “All For Love” was apocryphal. As I recall, when I spoke to Jeff Lynne, he confirmed this."

Update (4/8/08)

Update (4/6/08)

Update (4/4/08)

Update (4/3/08)

"There was one more that we didn't do (for The Beatles Anthology), which was a pity. It didn't have a very good title, it needed a bit of reworking, but it had a beautiful verse and it had John singing it. But George (Harrison) didn't wanna do it. The best thing about it all was to work with John again. Hearing him in the headphones, it was like he was in the next room -- 'Fuck, I'm singing harmony with John.' It's like an impossible dream."

"Well, I don't know that much about it. But I know that if they thought something wasn't good enough then that's probably the reason no one's heard it. You know, if they never got around to it -- sometimes that's it, time runs out."

(4/2/2008) The UK Sun has a "story" suggesting Paul and Ringo might finish "Now and Then" as a tribute to Neil Aspinall and other deceased Apple comrades. The heart of the six paragraph "report" is this quote from "an Apple insider," who says, “There have been discussions about finishing 'Now And Then.' It would be quite a task. The process of re-recording the two tracks that charted was fairly painless because the songs were almost complete. “Now And Then will need a significant amount more work to get it into a condition where it could be released.” . Like the recent Paul McCartney/iTunes story, this has very little substance to it. That quote is nothing new. In 2007, the Daily Express reported rumors that the Beatles were "possibly" going to finish it. They didn't. Several fake videos, like this one, have shown up on YouTube. As it stands now, the Sun story is just another addition to the rumor pile. Or maybe just an April Fool's joke. Nothing to see here. Move along.